I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning something I an working on.....
I'm developing a new Letterbox Difficulty Rating Program and I would like you input as to what you think should be included to rate the difficulty of a particular letterbox. So far I have:
Terrain
Accessibility
Box Difficulty (As in how well hidden)
Clue Difficulty (As in how cryptic they are written)
What else do you think needs to be considered when rating the difficulty of a letterbox? And do you think it should be one number like a 3.8 out of a 5 rating? or should there be a number for each field?
(For example)
Terrain: 2
Accessibility: 3
Box Difficulty: 4
Clue Difficulty: 1
Total: 10
Overall score: 2.5
Please share your thoughts on this with me.
Thanks in advance!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-+> Steve of Team Rayvenhaus <+-
"We leave nothing but an image to mark our passage......"
A Letterboxing Upcoming Events Calendar is available at
http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=4ncalendar
Become published by submitting content. Share your tips and tricks with
others at http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=Content&&pa=add_page
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Difficulty ratings
22 messages in this thread |
Started on 2004-01-14
Difficulty ratings
From: Rayvenhaus (rayvenhaus@myndworx.com) |
Date: 2004-01-14 08:44:39 UTC-08:00
Re: Difficulty ratings
From: Sissy n CR (cr@sc.rr.com) |
Date: 2004-01-14 17:10:02 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Rayvenhaus"
wrote:
> I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning
something I an working on.....
I think you're opening a whole can of worms that really doesn't need
to be opened.
Geocaching has ratings, but it is a whole different animal. While it
IS a form of what I call "Sport Treasure Hunting," it is also a
more ... Disney/AOL/gimme ... form. (I don't know how to put it into
words, really.)
Part of boxing's appeal to me is the fact you don't know what you're
getting into with some clues. It's the mystery.
Personally, I feel that ratings just won't work well in that relm.
That's not to say a sub-form of boxing can't work. Maybe, GPS-
less/no-trading caching, something like that. But for boxing on a
whole, it would be tough.
Not only that, I wouldn't want someone to APPLY a rating to a box
that I have chosen not to rate, either.
I'm coming back to concentrate more on boxing BECAUSE of all of the
mess over at geocaching.com.
CR
wrote:
> I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning
something I an working on.....
I think you're opening a whole can of worms that really doesn't need
to be opened.
Geocaching has ratings, but it is a whole different animal. While it
IS a form of what I call "Sport Treasure Hunting," it is also a
more ... Disney/AOL/gimme ... form. (I don't know how to put it into
words, really.)
Part of boxing's appeal to me is the fact you don't know what you're
getting into with some clues. It's the mystery.
Personally, I feel that ratings just won't work well in that relm.
That's not to say a sub-form of boxing can't work. Maybe, GPS-
less/no-trading caching, something like that. But for boxing on a
whole, it would be tough.
Not only that, I wouldn't want someone to APPLY a rating to a box
that I have chosen not to rate, either.
I'm coming back to concentrate more on boxing BECAUSE of all of the
mess over at geocaching.com.
CR
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: Pamela Smith Lenox (pamela.lenox@verizon.net) |
Date: 2004-01-14 12:23:59 UTC-05:00
Hello, all
I am *very* new to letterboxing. I meant to get started some time back,
but health problems got in the way...... Because of that, and just in
general, I'd much prefer having ratings for each field. A box with, say
a 5 for terrain and a 1 for clue difficulty is *much* different from a
box with a 1 terrain and a 5 clue difficulty. Having just one number
doesn't automatically tell someone enough to make a decision on whether
to go for the box. I might enjoy difficult clues, but be unable to
handle too much terrain difficulty. Someone else might enjoy an
extremely difficult hike, but not want to spend hours hiking somewhere
only to spend another hour or two looking for the box itself (to
exaggerate, lol.) Having separate numbers for each field would be much
more useful, imho, and I would welcome and appreciate the effort that
would go into listing such ratings.
Unrelated question - If there is a group in the Albany, NY area, I'd
love to hear about it. I have checked out the letterboxing.org website
and there seems to be a limited number of boxes within a short/day trip
of my home. Perhaps if we get together, we can change that? :-)
pezpam
On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 11:44 AM, Rayvenhaus wrote:
> I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning
> something I an working on.....
>
> I'm developing a new Letterbox Difficulty Rating Program and I would
> like you input as to what you think should be included to rate the
> difficulty of a particular letterbox. So far I have:
>
> Terrain
> Accessibility
> Box Difficulty (As in how well hidden)
> Clue Difficulty (As in how cryptic they are written)
>
> What else do you think needs to be considered when rating the
> difficulty of a letterbox? And do you think it should be one number
> like a 3.8 out of a 5 rating? or should there be a number for each
> field?
>
> (For example)
>
> Terrain: 2
> Accessibility: 3
> Box Difficulty: 4
> Clue Difficulty: 1
>
> Total: 10
> Overall score: 2.5
>
> Please share your thoughts on this with me.
>
> Thanks in advance!
I am *very* new to letterboxing. I meant to get started some time back,
but health problems got in the way...... Because of that, and just in
general, I'd much prefer having ratings for each field. A box with, say
a 5 for terrain and a 1 for clue difficulty is *much* different from a
box with a 1 terrain and a 5 clue difficulty. Having just one number
doesn't automatically tell someone enough to make a decision on whether
to go for the box. I might enjoy difficult clues, but be unable to
handle too much terrain difficulty. Someone else might enjoy an
extremely difficult hike, but not want to spend hours hiking somewhere
only to spend another hour or two looking for the box itself (to
exaggerate, lol.) Having separate numbers for each field would be much
more useful, imho, and I would welcome and appreciate the effort that
would go into listing such ratings.
Unrelated question - If there is a group in the Albany, NY area, I'd
love to hear about it. I have checked out the letterboxing.org website
and there seems to be a limited number of boxes within a short/day trip
of my home. Perhaps if we get together, we can change that? :-)
pezpam
On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 11:44 AM, Rayvenhaus wrote:
> I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning
> something I an working on.....
>
> I'm developing a new Letterbox Difficulty Rating Program and I would
> like you input as to what you think should be included to rate the
> difficulty of a particular letterbox. So far I have:
>
> Terrain
> Accessibility
> Box Difficulty (As in how well hidden)
> Clue Difficulty (As in how cryptic they are written)
>
> What else do you think needs to be considered when rating the
> difficulty of a letterbox? And do you think it should be one number
> like a 3.8 out of a 5 rating? or should there be a number for each
> field?
>
> (For example)
>
> Terrain: 2
> Accessibility: 3
> Box Difficulty: 4
> Clue Difficulty: 1
>
> Total: 10
> Overall score: 2.5
>
> Please share your thoughts on this with me.
>
> Thanks in advance!
Re: Difficulty ratings
From: ndnboxing (ndnboxing@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2004-01-14 17:36:46 UTC
Silent Doug created a system....
http://www.letterboxing.info/rating/
Mark
http://www.letterboxing.info/rating/
Mark
Re: [LbNA] Re: Difficulty ratings
From: Rayvenhaus (rayvenhaus@myndworx.com) |
Date: 2004-01-14 10:03:06 UTC-08:00
Actually, Silent Doug's system is based on the one created by the
Geocacher's and is the same thing I used for awhile. What I want to do is
create something new and improved with everyone's help.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-+> Steve of Team Rayvenhaus <+-
"We leave nothing but an image to mark our passage......"
A Letterboxing Upcoming Events Calendar is available at
http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=4ncalendar
Become published by submitting content. Share your tips and tricks with
others at http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=Content&&pa=add_page
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "ndnboxing"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:36 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Difficulty ratings
> Silent Doug created a system....
> http://www.letterboxing.info/rating/
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Geocacher's and is the same thing I used for awhile. What I want to do is
create something new and improved with everyone's help.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-+> Steve of Team Rayvenhaus <+-
"We leave nothing but an image to mark our passage......"
A Letterboxing Upcoming Events Calendar is available at
http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=4ncalendar
Become published by submitting content. Share your tips and tricks with
others at http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=Content&&pa=add_page
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
(This is a randomly selected tagline, your mileage may vary.)
Love is blind, marriage is the eye-opener.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "ndnboxing"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:36 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Difficulty ratings
> Silent Doug created a system....
> http://www.letterboxing.info/rating/
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: (HANNAHKAT@aol.com) |
Date: 2004-01-14 13:10:04 UTC-05:00
Yes, we've been through this discussion before and after much of the same types of arguments, we've come to the same conclusion as always..."there are no rules...do it if you wish, but don't expect others to adopt it."
It's 100% subjective and no one will ever agree to what constitutes a difficulty of "5" etc. So, do it if it pleases you, but otherwise don't expect adoption.
Respectfully,
Kim (rustypuff)
It's 100% subjective and no one will ever agree to what constitutes a difficulty of "5" etc. So, do it if it pleases you, but otherwise don't expect adoption.
Respectfully,
Kim (rustypuff)
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: (Gurudybaker@aol.com) |
Date: 2004-01-14 13:34:11 UTC-05:00
Too differcult. This is suppose to be fun. If you don't get a box so what.
We have to learn to accept disappointments. Letterboxing is not a test or a
competative sport..
STAR:W+S=DRR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have to learn to accept disappointments. Letterboxing is not a test or a
competative sport..
STAR:W+S=DRR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: Mary (RI) (rid25751@ride.ri.net) |
Date: 2004-01-14 14:09:30 UTC-05:00
Hi, Steve,
I personally think that many people like as much info as possible before starting out, especially if they have small children, health concerns, special physical limitations, or time constraints, etc. Certainly, those who do not need this info can choose to ignore it. It's considerate of you to spend the time and effort trying to rate the hikes.
I'm wondering if your goal is to assign a difficulty rating such as a number and leave it at that. I wouldn't find that particularly helpful. Although it might be nice to have something like "Difficulty: Terrain: 2 out of 5" or "Clue difficulty: 4 out of 10," you'd still probably would have to add phrases such as "moderate" or "straightforward" And no matter what scale, you'll probably have to note which end of the scale is more difficult each and every time, or include a link to your rating page. You may think it's apparent that a difficulty rating of 2 out of 5 is pretty easy, but some people would draw a blank here. Honest, some would. ;-) So if your objective is to make it really easy for potential seekers to decide if your boxes are worth a shot under given circumstances, then give lots of info. Say, for instance, the terrain is level and it's under a mile, it might be a 1 to you, but is this place full of exposed roots, or often soggy? Is the path a well-maintained wheelchair accessible one, but the area laced in poison ivy and the box well off-trail or behind a stone wall? This could make a big difference if I'm taking a stroller, or small children in boots, or my mother-in-law who walks fast but will trip on a shadow. I can't see how a rating system would help more than descriptions unless it was quite involved. Also, are there alternate routes that impact the difficulty? Here in RI there is an older coastal box that can be quite challenging, requiring scrambling over rocky coastline, sometimes wet and slippery, but since it was a placed a w-i-d-e swath was cut through the brush making access safe and easy on a grassy path above the coastline. It's nice to know ahead of time so I know who I can bring along and if I can get there safely after dark.
What's important to me often is something that numbers could probably not tell... but I'd take them into consideration! The more info, the better. I like to print out the clues, map a plan (even if only in my head), and be "good to go." Unless I purposely choose a cryptic or mystery box, I don't want unpleasant surprises nor do I want to do "homework"; I want to trust that I have all I really need, and my backpack and preparedness to fall back on.
As someone else said, check out Silent Doug's rating system if you haven't already.
Hope I've helped in some way.
Mary (RI)
----- Original Message -----
From: Rayvenhaus
To: LbNA [Letterbox North America]
Cc: NALB [NewAgeLetterboxing]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning something I an working on.....
Please share your thoughts on this with me.
Thanks in advance!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I personally think that many people like as much info as possible before starting out, especially if they have small children, health concerns, special physical limitations, or time constraints, etc. Certainly, those who do not need this info can choose to ignore it. It's considerate of you to spend the time and effort trying to rate the hikes.
I'm wondering if your goal is to assign a difficulty rating such as a number and leave it at that. I wouldn't find that particularly helpful. Although it might be nice to have something like "Difficulty: Terrain: 2 out of 5" or "Clue difficulty: 4 out of 10," you'd still probably would have to add phrases such as "moderate" or "straightforward" And no matter what scale, you'll probably have to note which end of the scale is more difficult each and every time, or include a link to your rating page. You may think it's apparent that a difficulty rating of 2 out of 5 is pretty easy, but some people would draw a blank here. Honest, some would. ;-) So if your objective is to make it really easy for potential seekers to decide if your boxes are worth a shot under given circumstances, then give lots of info. Say, for instance, the terrain is level and it's under a mile, it might be a 1 to you, but is this place full of exposed roots, or often soggy? Is the path a well-maintained wheelchair accessible one, but the area laced in poison ivy and the box well off-trail or behind a stone wall? This could make a big difference if I'm taking a stroller, or small children in boots, or my mother-in-law who walks fast but will trip on a shadow. I can't see how a rating system would help more than descriptions unless it was quite involved. Also, are there alternate routes that impact the difficulty? Here in RI there is an older coastal box that can be quite challenging, requiring scrambling over rocky coastline, sometimes wet and slippery, but since it was a placed a w-i-d-e swath was cut through the brush making access safe and easy on a grassy path above the coastline. It's nice to know ahead of time so I know who I can bring along and if I can get there safely after dark.
What's important to me often is something that numbers could probably not tell... but I'd take them into consideration! The more info, the better. I like to print out the clues, map a plan (even if only in my head), and be "good to go." Unless I purposely choose a cryptic or mystery box, I don't want unpleasant surprises nor do I want to do "homework"; I want to trust that I have all I really need, and my backpack and preparedness to fall back on.
As someone else said, check out Silent Doug's rating system if you haven't already.
Hope I've helped in some way.
Mary (RI)
----- Original Message -----
From: Rayvenhaus
To: LbNA [Letterbox North America]
Cc: NALB [NewAgeLetterboxing]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning something I an working on.....
Please share your thoughts on this with me.
Thanks in advance!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: Heidi Lee (bootsareyellow@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2004-01-14 11:20:43 UTC-08:00
I'm not crazy about the idea of a rating program with such rigid structure to it. If you want to mention something in the beginning of the clues about the nature of the hike (strenuous vs. easy, rocky or rough terrain, etc.) that's great. I appreciate information like that before I go out on a trek. But as for the difficulty of the clues or how well the box is hidden, I'd rather find that out for myself as I undertake the adventure. If I read the clues at home and they seem confusing, I don't do that letterbox. A well-hidden box is part of the fun for me, and gives me a greater sense of accomplishment when I do find it (a bigger "ah, ha!", if you will), but I don't need to know about that before-hand. Let's leave some of the mystery in it!
Rayvenhaus wrote:
I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning something I an working on.....
I'm developing a new Letterbox Difficulty Rating Program and I would like you input as to what you think should be included to rate the difficulty of a particular letterbox. So far I have:
Terrain
Accessibility
Box Difficulty (As in how well hidden)
Clue Difficulty (As in how cryptic they are written)
What else do you think needs to be considered when rating the difficulty of a letterbox? And do you think it should be one number like a 3.8 out of a 5 rating? or should there be a number for each field?
(For example)
Terrain: 2
Accessibility: 3
Box Difficulty: 4
Clue Difficulty: 1
Total: 10
Overall score: 2.5
Please share your thoughts on this with me.
Thanks in advance!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-+> Steve of Team Rayvenhaus <+-
"We leave nothing but an image to mark our passage......"
A Letterboxing Upcoming Events Calendar is available at
http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=4ncalendar
Become published by submitting content. Share your tips and tricks with
others at http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=Content&&pa=add_page
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Everyone has a right to be stupid. Some just abuse the privilege.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rayvenhaus
I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning something I an working on.....
I'm developing a new Letterbox Difficulty Rating Program and I would like you input as to what you think should be included to rate the difficulty of a particular letterbox. So far I have:
Terrain
Accessibility
Box Difficulty (As in how well hidden)
Clue Difficulty (As in how cryptic they are written)
What else do you think needs to be considered when rating the difficulty of a letterbox? And do you think it should be one number like a 3.8 out of a 5 rating? or should there be a number for each field?
(For example)
Terrain: 2
Accessibility: 3
Box Difficulty: 4
Clue Difficulty: 1
Total: 10
Overall score: 2.5
Please share your thoughts on this with me.
Thanks in advance!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-+> Steve of Team Rayvenhaus <+-
"We leave nothing but an image to mark our passage......"
A Letterboxing Upcoming Events Calendar is available at
http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=4ncalendar
Become published by submitting content. Share your tips and tricks with
others at http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=Content&&pa=add_page
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Everyone has a right to be stupid. Some just abuse the privilege.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: (mjpepe1@comcast.net) |
Date: 2004-01-14 19:30:20 UTC
Welcome to the group and this addictive pastime!
Glad that you are feeling well enough to get out there.
Mark Pepe
http://pepeanddavidow.blogspot.com/
Glad that you are feeling well enough to get out there.
Mark Pepe
http://pepeanddavidow.blogspot.com/
RE: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: Pam Kleingers (pam@kleingers.net) |
Date: 2004-01-14 15:37:19 UTC-05:00
This is strictly my opinion of course, and probalby not reflective on any
body else's preferences....
I prefer a short description rather than numbers. SOmething along hte lines
of "half mile hike on steep hills. Muddy after rains. Will have to hunt for
box! NOt suitable for small children" Tell s me a lot more than numbers.
As far as clue difficulty, that is obvious to me (usually) by reading hte
clues.
Otherwise, I would prefer seperate numbers
Mama Stork
aka Pam in Cinci
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rayvenhaus [mailto:rayvenhaus@myndworx.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:45 AM
> To: LbNA [Letterbox North America]
> Cc: NALB [NewAgeLetterboxing]
> Subject: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
>
>
> I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community
> concerning something I an working on.....
>
> I'm developing a new Letterbox Difficulty Rating Program and
> I would like you input as to what you think should be
> included to rate the difficulty of a particular letterbox.
> So far I have:
>
> Terrain
> Accessibility
> Box Difficulty (As in how well hidden)
> Clue Difficulty (As in how cryptic they are written)
>
> What else do you think needs to be considered when rating the
> difficulty of a letterbox? And do you think it should be one
> number like a 3.8 out of a 5 rating? or should there be a
> number for each field?
>
> (For example)
>
> Terrain: 2
> Accessibility: 3
> Box Difficulty: 4
> Clue Difficulty: 1
>
> Total: 10
> Overall score: 2.5
>
> Please share your thoughts on this with me.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> -+> Steve of Team Rayvenhaus <+-
> "We leave nothing but an image to mark our
> passage......"
> A Letterboxing Upcoming Events Calendar is
> available at
> http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=4ncalendar
> Become published by submitting content. Share your tips
> and tricks with
> others at
> http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=Content&&pa=add_page
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> (This is a randomly selected tagline, your mileage may vary.)
> Everyone has a right to be stupid. Some just abuse the privilege.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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>
body else's preferences....
I prefer a short description rather than numbers. SOmething along hte lines
of "half mile hike on steep hills. Muddy after rains. Will have to hunt for
box! NOt suitable for small children" Tell s me a lot more than numbers.
As far as clue difficulty, that is obvious to me (usually) by reading hte
clues.
Otherwise, I would prefer seperate numbers
Mama Stork
aka Pam in Cinci
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rayvenhaus [mailto:rayvenhaus@myndworx.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:45 AM
> To: LbNA [Letterbox North America]
> Cc: NALB [NewAgeLetterboxing]
> Subject: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
>
>
> I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community
> concerning something I an working on.....
>
> I'm developing a new Letterbox Difficulty Rating Program and
> I would like you input as to what you think should be
> included to rate the difficulty of a particular letterbox.
> So far I have:
>
> Terrain
> Accessibility
> Box Difficulty (As in how well hidden)
> Clue Difficulty (As in how cryptic they are written)
>
> What else do you think needs to be considered when rating the
> difficulty of a letterbox? And do you think it should be one
> number like a 3.8 out of a 5 rating? or should there be a
> number for each field?
>
> (For example)
>
> Terrain: 2
> Accessibility: 3
> Box Difficulty: 4
> Clue Difficulty: 1
>
> Total: 10
> Overall score: 2.5
>
> Please share your thoughts on this with me.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> -+> Steve of Team Rayvenhaus <+-
> "We leave nothing but an image to mark our
> passage......"
> A Letterboxing Upcoming Events Calendar is
> available at
> http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=4ncalendar
> Become published by submitting content. Share your tips
> and tricks with
> others at
> http://www.myndworx.com/modules.php?name=Content&&pa=add_page
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> (This is a randomly selected tagline, your mileage may vary.)
> Everyone has a right to be stupid. Some just abuse the privilege.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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>
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: Pamela Smith Lenox (pamela.lenox@verizon.net) |
Date: 2004-01-14 15:39:03 UTC-05:00
Thank you - on both counts. :-)
pezpam
On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 02:30 PM, mjpepe1@comcast.net wrote:
> Welcome to the group and this addictive pastime!
> Glad that you are feeling well enough to get out there.
>
>
> Mark Pepe
> http://pepeanddavidow.blogspot.com/
>
>
pezpam
On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 02:30 PM, mjpepe1@comcast.net wrote:
> Welcome to the group and this addictive pastime!
> Glad that you are feeling well enough to get out there.
>
>
> Mark Pepe
> http://pepeanddavidow.blogspot.com/
>
>
Re: Difficulty ratings
From: Phyto (phyto_me@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2004-01-15 00:14:32 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Rayvenhaus"
wrote:
> I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning
something I am working on.....
I don't label my clues and/or boxes with ratings... and don't plan on
changing that...ever.
If that's a problem then look elsewhere.
Thanks for asking.
wrote:
> I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning
something I am working on.....
I don't label my clues and/or boxes with ratings... and don't plan on
changing that...ever.
If that's a problem then look elsewhere.
Thanks for asking.
Re: [LbNA] Re: Difficulty ratings
From: Rayvenhaus (rayvenhaus@myndworx.com) |
Date: 2004-01-14 16:22:57 UTC-08:00
Thank you for taking the time to reply Phyto and thank you for sharing your
thoughts on the matter. And, no, it's not a problem at all. I'm sorry that
the intent of the question was missed and that you think I'm asking you to
rate or rank or do anything with your boxes. Course, I don't understand why
you've got a chip on your shoulder over my asking a simple question, but
that's ok too. I'm sorry that my question upset you.
Have a wonderful day,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phyto"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:14 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Difficulty ratings
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Rayvenhaus"
> wrote:
> > I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning
> something I am working on.....
>
>
> I don't label my clues and/or boxes with ratings... and don't plan on
> changing that...ever.
>
> If that's a problem then look elsewhere.
> Thanks for asking.
thoughts on the matter. And, no, it's not a problem at all. I'm sorry that
the intent of the question was missed and that you think I'm asking you to
rate or rank or do anything with your boxes. Course, I don't understand why
you've got a chip on your shoulder over my asking a simple question, but
that's ok too. I'm sorry that my question upset you.
Have a wonderful day,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phyto"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:14 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Difficulty ratings
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Rayvenhaus"
> wrote:
> > I'd like to get the help of the letterboxing community concerning
> something I am working on.....
>
>
> I don't label my clues and/or boxes with ratings... and don't plan on
> changing that...ever.
>
> If that's a problem then look elsewhere.
> Thanks for asking.
RE: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: Debbi Scott (dscott5377@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2004-01-14 17:31:27 UTC-07:00
I have to agree with those that mentioned things about the trail, rather
than a number...
as Don said:
The only exceptions that might need a rating would be information the
placer could and should put in clues,i.e., wheelchair or stroller
accessible, dog friendly or no dogs allowed, good for small children,
etc.,etc.
I have small children... and long walks or difficult walks don't work
for us. My kids get very disappointed when we get out to letterbox,
only to find out that it is too hard for them. I would much prefer this
information in advance. (And the dog would love it if she could come
too - but we don't take her due to the fact that we don't usually know
if it is dog friendly).
Debbi
http://www.greatscottcreations.net - Every dog loves treats! Home-made
& fresh baked! No additives or preservatives!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary (RI) [mailto:rid25751@ride.ri.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 12:10 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
Say, for instance, the terrain is level and it's under a mile, it might
be a 1 to you, but is this place full of exposed roots, or often soggy?
Is the path a well-maintained wheelchair accessible one, but the area
laced in poison ivy and the box well off-trail or behind a stone wall?
This could make a big difference if I'm taking a stroller, or small
children in boots, or my mother-in-law who walks fast but will trip on a
shadow. I can't see how a rating system would help more than
descriptions unless it was quite involved. Also, are there alternate
routes that impact the difficulty? Here in RI there is an older coastal
box that can be quite challenging, requiring scrambling over rocky
coastline, sometimes wet and slippery, but since it was a placed a
w-i-d-e swath was cut through the brush making access safe and easy on a
grassy path above the coastline. It's nice to know ahead of time so I
know who I can bring along and if I can get there safely after dark.
What's important to me often is something that numbers could probably
not tell... but I'd take them into consideration! The more info, the
better. I like to print out the clues, map a plan (even if only in my
head), and be "good to go." Unless I purposely choose a cryptic or
mystery box, I don't want unpleasant surprises nor do I want to do
"homework"; I want to trust that I have all I really need, and my
backpack and preparedness to fall back on.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
than a number...
as Don said:
The only exceptions that might need a rating would be information the
placer could and should put in clues,i.e., wheelchair or stroller
accessible, dog friendly or no dogs allowed, good for small children,
etc.,etc.
I have small children... and long walks or difficult walks don't work
for us. My kids get very disappointed when we get out to letterbox,
only to find out that it is too hard for them. I would much prefer this
information in advance. (And the dog would love it if she could come
too - but we don't take her due to the fact that we don't usually know
if it is dog friendly).
Debbi
http://www.greatscottcreations.net - Every dog loves treats! Home-made
& fresh baked! No additives or preservatives!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary (RI) [mailto:rid25751@ride.ri.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 12:10 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
Say, for instance, the terrain is level and it's under a mile, it might
be a 1 to you, but is this place full of exposed roots, or often soggy?
Is the path a well-maintained wheelchair accessible one, but the area
laced in poison ivy and the box well off-trail or behind a stone wall?
This could make a big difference if I'm taking a stroller, or small
children in boots, or my mother-in-law who walks fast but will trip on a
shadow. I can't see how a rating system would help more than
descriptions unless it was quite involved. Also, are there alternate
routes that impact the difficulty? Here in RI there is an older coastal
box that can be quite challenging, requiring scrambling over rocky
coastline, sometimes wet and slippery, but since it was a placed a
w-i-d-e swath was cut through the brush making access safe and easy on a
grassy path above the coastline. It's nice to know ahead of time so I
know who I can bring along and if I can get there safely after dark.
What's important to me often is something that numbers could probably
not tell... but I'd take them into consideration! The more info, the
better. I like to print out the clues, map a plan (even if only in my
head), and be "good to go." Unless I purposely choose a cryptic or
mystery box, I don't want unpleasant surprises nor do I want to do
"homework"; I want to trust that I have all I really need, and my
backpack and preparedness to fall back on.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[LbNA] Re: Difficulty ratings
From: Phyto (phyto_me@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2004-01-15 01:23:52 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Rayvenhaus"
wrote:
Upset? Who is upset here? :-)
In the words of Abe the great - "You can please some of the people all
of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't
please all of the people all of the time"...
wrote:
Upset? Who is upset here? :-)
In the words of Abe the great - "You can please some of the people all
of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't
please all of the people all of the time"...
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: dave & diane (vonderinsel@cox.net) |
Date: 2004-01-14 22:55:28 UTC-05:00
>Letterboxing is not a test or a competative sport..<
What? Are your sure?
All kidding aside, I am doing this for the fun. It gets me out for a good long walk in the fresh air. Okay, the rainy days aren't too great, but still fun.There has been only one or two times when we actually threw in the towel - the first time after a couple of miles walk on the beach we think we found the area ( we couldn't go much farther without swim gear). There was much PI and cat briar. We couldn't find the trail and we were getting very scratched up. Since the box was planted in winter and here it was summer...maybe we'll go back someday. Usually the problem is not with the directions or the location of the box, but with the environment. If a trail is not used very often, then the way does not stay obvious.
Can't wait to get out on the trailagain.
Diane (von der insel)
----- Original Message -----
From: Gurudybaker@aol.com
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
Too differcult. This is suppose to be fun. If you don't get a box so what.
We have to learn to accept disappointments. Letterboxing is not a test or a
competative sport..
STAR:W+S=DRR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What? Are your sure?
All kidding aside, I am doing this for the fun. It gets me out for a good long walk in the fresh air. Okay, the rainy days aren't too great, but still fun.There has been only one or two times when we actually threw in the towel - the first time after a couple of miles walk on the beach we think we found the area ( we couldn't go much farther without swim gear). There was much PI and cat briar. We couldn't find the trail and we were getting very scratched up. Since the box was planted in winter and here it was summer...maybe we'll go back someday. Usually the problem is not with the directions or the location of the box, but with the environment. If a trail is not used very often, then the way does not stay obvious.
Can't wait to get out on the trailagain.
Diane (von der insel)
----- Original Message -----
From: Gurudybaker@aol.com
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
Too differcult. This is suppose to be fun. If you don't get a box so what.
We have to learn to accept disappointments. Letterboxing is not a test or a
competative sport..
STAR:W+S=DRR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Difficulty ratings
From: pandora Taleon (hispandora@phlsystems.com) |
Date: 2004-01-15 10:18:20 UTC
Good Evening Steve,
You may remember back in May when I received the Purple Heart Award
and spent 6 weeks on crutches because I broke my ankle in three
places while letterboxing. At that time I wrote what I considered to
be a plea to the letterboxing group that someone come up with
something like a rating system and that placers take a more serious
attitude of responsibility when posting there clues to give the
letter boxer some idea of what they are getting into. I cannot tell
you how much I appreciate you taking the incentive to do it. The way
I see it, and I am a placer as well as a seeker, I also have a
responsibility to the seeker, when they decided to look for one of my
letterboxes my clues are their guide so to speak. I see no reason
whatsoever that I cannot assist in making sure they know how to
prepare themselves.
Despite what the waiver of responsibility says though I understand it
and it's legalities, I know that morally I would feel terrible if
someone went out searching for one of my letterboxes and ended up
falling off a cliff or breaking something and then come to find out
that they thought they could handle it because my clues didn't give
them enought, or the correct information.
I think a rating system is a very important thing. I think handled
well and built well it would be a very beneficial and helpful. I
also as many others have stated think that there can be some
confusion as to what is a "5" and what is a "2" however, I think
that if a "Key" so to speak was also created that explained what is
considered "difficult" and what is considered "easy" then a person
reading that key can decide for themselves what level they feel suits
them. And with a basic guideline to follow a placer then has the
choice to utilize it or not, and if utilized the letter boxer is not
left wondering what each specific placer considers difficult and
easy, but instead what the "key" does, and what they do. You have not
therefore taken the responsible decision on whether or not to attempt
to find the letterbox and the responsibility of doing so away from
the seeking letter boxer.
Just as an example here: Lets say for a moment that I am hunting down
one of the ever-notorious Ryan Carpenter boxes. I read Ryan's clues
VERY carefully. If Ryan rates something "Difficult" I know I am in
for something serious and don't plan anything else that day. But
that is because I know Ryan and have searched for his boxes several
times. Now what I would rate "Difficult" would be very easy for Mr.
Carpenter. When hunting down a Der Mad Stamper Box, I know to expect
more difficulty finding the box then on the hike itself. But this
comes from experience with letter boxers, we cannot depend on that,
as often times our boxes are looked for by people that have never
heard of us, and are visiting our area.
Here is what I suggest: A basic guideline to the rating system based
on popular contribution (Just like Steve is trying to do) where the
rating is a number, but that number has a written descriptor.
Perhaps something like 5 Hike is over 6 miles and/or may include
high elevation gains, strenuous rock climbing or a stroll through a
field of poison ivy. 0 Hike is all flat walking, wheelchair and
stroller accessible and wonderful for small children and so on and so
forth.
As for rating clues and the actual hiding location of the letterbox,
I do not personally feel a need for such a thing; I also find the
clues obvious from reading them and the location to be a big part of
the mystery of the hunt. I personally don't have a problem not
finding a box, it happens, I've been known to contact the placer and
go back again a few times before giving up. However, perhaps I am
missing something other people do feel a need for, and I would have
no problem participating in that area to help others out if it is
something they need or want.
I will not debate that giving away difficulty details and such on
a "Mystery Box" and so on and so forth would take away the Mystery,
but I also don't think anyone that felt a need to know such details
would set out blind on a Mystery Letterbox. I think it would suffice
to say that a "Mystery Box" would probably not be rated and that
those of us want more information before setting out are quite all
right to not get those letterboxes. I won't get every letterbox in
the world so that one won't kill me either.
On a personal note I will add that were Steve to develop this farther
(which I suggest and support) Iron`Bear and I will definitely rate
our boxes. Not to mention that I think I would be more inclined not
look for boxes by people that choose not to rate theirs and aid us in
being prepared than I would be deterred by their box being rated
difficult because honestly, my safety, Iron`Bear's safety and our
daughter's safety is more important to me than any letterbox. I
surely don't mind the idea of something being difficult, I just want
to know ahead of time so we have everything we might need if an
accident were to occur.
I bid you all well,
pandora{I`B}
You may remember back in May when I received the Purple Heart Award
and spent 6 weeks on crutches because I broke my ankle in three
places while letterboxing. At that time I wrote what I considered to
be a plea to the letterboxing group that someone come up with
something like a rating system and that placers take a more serious
attitude of responsibility when posting there clues to give the
letter boxer some idea of what they are getting into. I cannot tell
you how much I appreciate you taking the incentive to do it. The way
I see it, and I am a placer as well as a seeker, I also have a
responsibility to the seeker, when they decided to look for one of my
letterboxes my clues are their guide so to speak. I see no reason
whatsoever that I cannot assist in making sure they know how to
prepare themselves.
Despite what the waiver of responsibility says though I understand it
and it's legalities, I know that morally I would feel terrible if
someone went out searching for one of my letterboxes and ended up
falling off a cliff or breaking something and then come to find out
that they thought they could handle it because my clues didn't give
them enought, or the correct information.
I think a rating system is a very important thing. I think handled
well and built well it would be a very beneficial and helpful. I
also as many others have stated think that there can be some
confusion as to what is a "5" and what is a "2" however, I think
that if a "Key" so to speak was also created that explained what is
considered "difficult" and what is considered "easy" then a person
reading that key can decide for themselves what level they feel suits
them. And with a basic guideline to follow a placer then has the
choice to utilize it or not, and if utilized the letter boxer is not
left wondering what each specific placer considers difficult and
easy, but instead what the "key" does, and what they do. You have not
therefore taken the responsible decision on whether or not to attempt
to find the letterbox and the responsibility of doing so away from
the seeking letter boxer.
Just as an example here: Lets say for a moment that I am hunting down
one of the ever-notorious Ryan Carpenter boxes. I read Ryan's clues
VERY carefully. If Ryan rates something "Difficult" I know I am in
for something serious and don't plan anything else that day. But
that is because I know Ryan and have searched for his boxes several
times. Now what I would rate "Difficult" would be very easy for Mr.
Carpenter. When hunting down a Der Mad Stamper Box, I know to expect
more difficulty finding the box then on the hike itself. But this
comes from experience with letter boxers, we cannot depend on that,
as often times our boxes are looked for by people that have never
heard of us, and are visiting our area.
Here is what I suggest: A basic guideline to the rating system based
on popular contribution (Just like Steve is trying to do) where the
rating is a number, but that number has a written descriptor.
Perhaps something like 5 Hike is over 6 miles and/or may include
high elevation gains, strenuous rock climbing or a stroll through a
field of poison ivy. 0 Hike is all flat walking, wheelchair and
stroller accessible and wonderful for small children and so on and so
forth.
As for rating clues and the actual hiding location of the letterbox,
I do not personally feel a need for such a thing; I also find the
clues obvious from reading them and the location to be a big part of
the mystery of the hunt. I personally don't have a problem not
finding a box, it happens, I've been known to contact the placer and
go back again a few times before giving up. However, perhaps I am
missing something other people do feel a need for, and I would have
no problem participating in that area to help others out if it is
something they need or want.
I will not debate that giving away difficulty details and such on
a "Mystery Box" and so on and so forth would take away the Mystery,
but I also don't think anyone that felt a need to know such details
would set out blind on a Mystery Letterbox. I think it would suffice
to say that a "Mystery Box" would probably not be rated and that
those of us want more information before setting out are quite all
right to not get those letterboxes. I won't get every letterbox in
the world so that one won't kill me either.
On a personal note I will add that were Steve to develop this farther
(which I suggest and support) Iron`Bear and I will definitely rate
our boxes. Not to mention that I think I would be more inclined not
look for boxes by people that choose not to rate theirs and aid us in
being prepared than I would be deterred by their box being rated
difficult because honestly, my safety, Iron`Bear's safety and our
daughter's safety is more important to me than any letterbox. I
surely don't mind the idea of something being difficult, I just want
to know ahead of time so we have everything we might need if an
accident were to occur.
I bid you all well,
pandora{I`B}
Re: Difficulty ratings
From: Sissy n CR (cr@sc.rr.com) |
Date: 2004-01-15 14:46:35 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "pandora Taleon"
wrote:
> I think a rating system is a very important thing. I think handled
> well and built well it would be a very beneficial and helpful. I
> also as many others have stated think that there can be some
> confusion as to what is a "5" and what is a "2" however, I think
> that if a "Key" so to speak was also created that explained what is
> considered "difficult" and what is considered "easy" then a person
> reading that key can decide for themselves what level they feel
suits
> them. And with a basic guideline to follow a placer then has the
> choice to utilize it or not, and if utilized the letter boxer is
not
> left wondering what each specific placer considers difficult and
> easy, but instead what the "key" does, and what they do. You have
not
Take it from me. Geocaching has a clearly defined rating system and
you STILL have caches rated strange. A "1" terrain is supposed to be
wheelchair accessible, however, you will find some caches rated a "1"
that has you climbing hills on animal trails. No way in heck could
you get a wheelchair up there. Heck, I'd have a hard time CARRYING
one.
So what's to say a box is mis-rated and someone still gets hurt? The
effort is for naught.
Personally, trying to put a rating system on anything so someone
doesn't get hurt is passing the blame. One should ALWAYS be aware of
their surroundings and abilities. What's to say when the box was
placed the area only needed a "2" terrain, but down the road it
jumped to a "5"?
An analogy is driving a car. Just because everyone is supposed to
drive safely and the roads are safe doesn't mean you can drive the
car with your eyes closed.
Everyone should be taking responsiblity for their OWN actions.
No, rating boxes will be a futile effort. You will NOT get the
result you think you want.
The best solution, if anything, is like what has been mentioned, a
short description.
CR
> I think a rating system is a very important thing. I think handled
> well and built well it would be a very beneficial and helpful. I
> also as many others have stated think that there can be some
> confusion as to what is a "5" and what is a "2" however, I think
> that if a "Key" so to speak was also created that explained what is
> considered "difficult" and what is considered "easy" then a person
> reading that key can decide for themselves what level they feel
suits
> them. And with a basic guideline to follow a placer then has the
> choice to utilize it or not, and if utilized the letter boxer is
not
> left wondering what each specific placer considers difficult and
> easy, but instead what the "key" does, and what they do. You have
not
Take it from me. Geocaching has a clearly defined rating system and
you STILL have caches rated strange. A "1" terrain is supposed to be
wheelchair accessible, however, you will find some caches rated a "1"
that has you climbing hills on animal trails. No way in heck could
you get a wheelchair up there. Heck, I'd have a hard time CARRYING
one.
So what's to say a box is mis-rated and someone still gets hurt? The
effort is for naught.
Personally, trying to put a rating system on anything so someone
doesn't get hurt is passing the blame. One should ALWAYS be aware of
their surroundings and abilities. What's to say when the box was
placed the area only needed a "2" terrain, but down the road it
jumped to a "5"?
An analogy is driving a car. Just because everyone is supposed to
drive safely and the roads are safe doesn't mean you can drive the
car with your eyes closed.
Everyone should be taking responsiblity for their OWN actions.
No, rating boxes will be a futile effort. You will NOT get the
result you think you want.
The best solution, if anything, is like what has been mentioned, a
short description.
CR
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: (Gurudybaker@aol.com) |
Date: 2004-01-15 10:23:48 UTC-05:00
discriptions are good numbers mean nothing
STAR:W+S=DRR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
STAR:W+S=DRR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Difficulty ratings
From: (hurdhut@aol.com) |
Date: 2004-01-15 10:26:45 UTC-05:00
I agree with Mama Stork regarding short hints at the beginning of the clues.
We letterbox with a 12 and 3 year old, and a17month old. approximate
time,terrain, and suitability for young children are important to me. If I box alone or
with my wife I do boxes that seem more of a mystery or longer. If I do a
questionable box with the kids; I have a backup box plan that I know will be easy
so they are not dissapointed. Generally the kids don't care anyway, because
they just enjoy they adventure. The hunt should be a learning experience as well
as just plain fun, whether box found or not.
I think it should be up to the placer to offer what ever hints/ratings
that he or she wants to or feels is appropriate. I'm not sure a concensus can be
reached to have a universal rating system, or if one is necessary. Phyto
pointed out that no ratings will be on his boxes. This intrigues me to search for
those boxes, but not with kids. Rubaduc usually has good info regarding time
and terrain; I may not do his when I have kids. You can always try contacting
the placer BEFORE you go on the look.
Sorry for rambling, thought I would offer my view. Safe trails to all!
Koyote
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We letterbox with a 12 and 3 year old, and a17month old. approximate
time,terrain, and suitability for young children are important to me. If I box alone or
with my wife I do boxes that seem more of a mystery or longer. If I do a
questionable box with the kids; I have a backup box plan that I know will be easy
so they are not dissapointed. Generally the kids don't care anyway, because
they just enjoy they adventure. The hunt should be a learning experience as well
as just plain fun, whether box found or not.
I think it should be up to the placer to offer what ever hints/ratings
that he or she wants to or feels is appropriate. I'm not sure a concensus can be
reached to have a universal rating system, or if one is necessary. Phyto
pointed out that no ratings will be on his boxes. This intrigues me to search for
those boxes, but not with kids. Rubaduc usually has good info regarding time
and terrain; I may not do his when I have kids. You can always try contacting
the placer BEFORE you go on the look.
Sorry for rambling, thought I would offer my view. Safe trails to all!
Koyote
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Difficulty ratings
From: trentlaudes (trentlaudes@excite.com) |
Date: 2004-01-20 05:21:20 UTC
I don't care much for difficulty ratings; they seem too limited. I
prefer a careful description of the letterbox location along with
some site-specific warnings.
--Buzzard
prefer a careful description of the letterbox location along with
some site-specific warnings.
--Buzzard